penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21214
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-20-24 07:08 PM - Post#361891
Why is Savage doing this game? Can we have a Penn guy doing all of the Princeton games?
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2140
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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Harvard
01-20-24 07:21 PM - Post#361893
In response to penn nation
I endorse your request, penn nation. Savage is bad luck.
We're looking shaky at both ends of the floor.
Eddie Holland remains glued to the bench.
Edited by weinhauers_ghost on 01-20-24 07:22 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21214
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-20-24 07:23 PM - Post#361895
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Although at least he just acknowledged the amazing Penn comeback at the Palestra during his freshman year.
Team does not look good, period.
But I think most of us knew that this is how the season was going to be.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21214
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-20-24 07:30 PM - Post#361898
In response to penn nation
Brown seems like the only guy who can move it around to get good looks for us. Otherwise, it is has been challenging to get a good shot.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32840
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-24 07:30 PM - Post#361900
In response to penn nation
It's just embarrassing. We look slower, weaker and a much worse shooting team that plays zero defense.
Other than that, it's a great game.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2140
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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01-20-24 07:31 PM - Post#361901
In response to palestra38
You forgot to add "predictable", P38.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32840
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-24 07:33 PM - Post#361903
In response to weinhauers_ghost
It's so predictable that I thought about going-- I live 15 minutes away and said "naaah"
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32840
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-24 07:47 PM - Post#361908
In response to palestra38
This looks like the worst of the Jerome Allen era. Waiting to see Bryce Washington enter the game.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21214
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-20-24 07:53 PM - Post#361910
In response to palestra38
The talent level is sorely lacking.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32840
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-24 08:06 PM - Post#361913
In response to penn nation
To give Donahue a break, who thought after last season he would have to play most of the Ivy season without Dingle, Martz and Slajchert? But then again, he was unable to win with those guys, even given a 17 point halftime lead on Princeton. That's what lost me, not the current disaster.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21214
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-20-24 08:12 PM - Post#361914
In response to palestra38
But as many of us were saying during last season, some of these guys should have been given more of an opportunity to play to prepare them for the future.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32840
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-24 08:25 PM - Post#361916
In response to penn nation
I think it's pretty obvious now that that thinking was incorrect. Their inability to play this year in favor of the freshmen show that they should have been playing in front of last year's stars? Last year was our year and the coaching let us down.
I'm still interested in seeing if we'll see Max Martz resurface next year as a grad transfer.
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nychoops
Junior
Posts: 243
Reg: 11-23-04
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01-20-24 08:29 PM - Post#361917
In response to palestra38
The kids play hard ...everything stems from completely inept coaching, Perperation, scouting, recruiting...all of it. It's beyond frustrating bc the potential for this program to become relevant is there ...it will NEVER happen under this staff. Never
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-20-24 08:31 PM - Post#361918
In response to nychoops
Time for a change
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21214
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Harvard
01-20-24 08:39 PM - Post#361919
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Eddie Holland remains glued to the bench.
Briefly resurrected, for the good!
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2140
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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01-20-24 08:39 PM - Post#361920
In response to 91Quake
Pressure defense cuts the deficit to 9.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21214
Reg: 12-02-04
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01-20-24 08:57 PM - Post#361923
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Oy to the Vey on the missed dunk by Laz.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32840
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-20-24 09:03 PM - Post#361924
In response to penn nation
Lane violation to clinch the game. Well coached team
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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01-21-24 12:31 AM - Post#361933
In response to palestra38
Don't look know but Harvard has a younger team than Penn.
KP has them both at 6-8 for the league tied for the fourth spot.
Offensive ranking is getting worse. The defensive ranking is getting slightly better.
Anybody know when Clark is due back?
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2140
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
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Harvard
01-21-24 12:39 AM - Post#361935
In response to UPIA1968
ESPN commentators said they expect Slajchert to be back at some point in February. It will probably take him a while to get back to game shape.
I noticed that when Spinoso sat, they either went to Gerhart, who was ineffective in limited minutes, or they went small. Johnnie Walter was a DNP.
Edited by weinhauers_ghost on 01-21-24 12:42 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3588
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-21-24 01:21 AM - Post#361936
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Slajchert will be back in first half of Feb.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3588
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-21-24 01:22 AM - Post#361937
In response to palestra38
Lane violation to clinch the game. Well coached team
Saturday Refs. Never seen a lane violation from the 3pt line.
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slane
Freshman
Posts: 70
Reg: 02-09-05
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01-21-24 01:28 AM - Post#361938
In response to UPIA1968
Someone said they spoke to Clark (who is no longer in a boot) and he predicted 4 weeks (which would have him back for the Yale / Brown Palestra back to back that starts the 2nd half of the round robin). Another source said it could be a week earlier (which would mean @Princeton). Before that we have @ Columbia next Saturday and @ Brown and @ Yale the following week. In the second half we have 5 at home and 2 on the road. We should have Clark for all of them. The road games at Brown and at Columbia without Clark may decide our fate. We can afford to lose @ Princeton and @ Yale and still have a good shot at locking up the 4 seed but not if we lose at Columbia and Brown. Someone will check me but I am pretty sure that no 8-6 team has ever failed to make the ILT. If we get swept by Princeton ,Yale and Cornell, we are already looking at a best case 7-7.
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andybech
Freshman
Posts: 82
Reg: 02-15-20
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01-21-24 02:13 PM - Post#361956
In response to slane
This is clearly not a great team but getting Clark back should help. I noticed Brown did get open against Harvard. There just was not anyone who could get him the ball other than maybe Spinoso on a risky pass. A little more ball handling and penetration would help.
Against Harvard the lack of size and only average athleticism hurt them. Harvard had a few inches at most positions outside the backcourt. It really would be nice to have another 6-7+ player in the lineup as a second big. Smith and Perkins sometimes get manhandled in the post on defense. This is not a great team, but getting Slachert back probably gives them a decent chance for 4th.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-21-24 03:58 PM - Post#361961
In response to andybech
Well, that was a disappointing game, and one that hurts a lot (even this early) in regard to making the Ivy tournament. On the plus side, it was a great second half, with tremendous defensive intensity. McMullen and Smith did a great job harassing Mack, and we seemed to be everywhere defensively all half. The first half was exactly the opposite.
I think both young teams got a lesson in how conference play is different, and it will be interesting to see how Perkins, Brown, and Mack all react to teams that are ready for what they do.
Did anyone catch what Mack did that earned the technical? There were two different instances I saw where Mack was jawing with the Penn bench (once he clearly had words with Clark). I’m sure Mack will adjust to getting defended physically the way he was last night, but he seemed to lose his composure at a couple points (while getting a couple tough second half buckets they needed to win).
In the end, we were a few bounces away here — we had some very good looks on 3s that spun out in the first half, while everything went in for Harvard. Plenty of that was our lackluster first half defense, but it still seemed like Harvard got the bounces in the first half, and just a couple of different bounces might have changed the outcome. The Penn team doesn’t give up, certainly, and that is a very good thing.
The next couple of road games will be very important.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-22-24 01:56 PM - Post#362007
In response to palestra38
It's so predictable that I thought about going-- I live 15 minutes away and said "naaah"
Wait until you level up to the next level and choose to go do something more enjoyable in lieu of watching a game that is just going to aggravate you. I'm happy to report that's what I did this weekend - did not watch the Harvard game and now have no plans to waste any time doing so. That can be this coaching staff's legacy, building up indifference amongst once ardent fans.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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01-22-24 02:01 PM - Post#362010
In response to palestra38
I think it's pretty obvious now that that thinking was incorrect. Their inability to play this year in favor of the freshmen show that they should have been playing in front of last year's stars? Last year was our year and the coaching let us down.
I'm still interested in seeing if we'll see Max Martz resurface next year as a grad transfer.
I generally agree with this about players on the bench (a general trend here is that we just don't have enough top level talent for a championship level team), but I will say I'm not sure that is the case for a player like Ed Holland. I'm glad he will get a Penn degree, but think he has been handled very poorly by this coaching staff. He obviously has talent (his metrics this year in particular are very good and have improved over time), but this staff is unable to find a place for him. This is wild to me for a lineup lacking in athleticism that we can't find room for a skilled, athletic 6'6" kid.
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andybech
Freshman
Posts: 82
Reg: 02-15-20
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01-22-24 03:13 PM - Post#362017
In response to Mike Porter
Perkins and Mack might know each other from DC prep school games and summer ball. It will be a fun 4 years seeing them go at each other.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-22-24 09:02 PM - Post#362024
In response to Mike Porter
I don’t get it with Holland either. Thought we had a good thing early in the season when Laz/Holland/Walter were playing that position. Brown’s return moved Smith into the 4 mix, which is fine for some minutes, but not sure why that means no eddie. And now with Clark out, he certainly should be getting some run every game.
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UPIA1968
PhD Student
Posts: 1121
Loc: Cornwall, PA
Reg: 11-20-06
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01-22-24 10:11 PM - Post#362025
In response to SomeGuy
Holland can't finish unless the recipient of a good pass.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6413
Reg: 11-22-04
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01-22-24 11:07 PM - Post#362026
In response to UPIA1968
Well, he does have a .619 shooting percentage. So it seems like he is at least getting plenty of good passes.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3588
Reg: 02-15-15
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01-23-24 10:44 AM - Post#362031
In response to SomeGuy
If only the coaching staff would read this board and realize how good Eddie Holland actually is! SMH
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Harvard
01-23-24 01:43 PM - Post#362035
In response to PennFan10
PennFan10 - hope you're well, and generally I agree with you on many thing (and appreciate many back and forths in the past). If this is directed at me, I'm fine with it. This is a message board, and a pretty mild one at that, meant for discussion.
I'm certainly not suggesting Holland is any kind of savior, but the coaching staff thought enough of him to make him a starter at the beginning of the year. Those early games include the best win of the year against Nova, when he had his best D1 game of the year (we don't win that game without his performance). A mere 2 weeks later he got 0 mins in an easy win against Monmouth followed by 0 mins in a OT loss (so plenty of available minutes) against La Salle where it sure looked like we could have used some athleticism.
If that is some kind of brilliant coaching maneuver or strategy, I'd love to hear more about it and how it has benefited this team.
My general feeling has been stated repeatedly, I really do like this freshman class (though Perkins has hit the frosh wall a bit, so curious to see how he pushes through), but overall there is not enough talent and depth on this team to win a championship. This is because the coaching staff did not consistently recruit enough top players (too many missed recruiting classes, again), nor has the coaching been good enough to elevate the players to championship level.
We are further, not closer, than last year and we weren't even that close last year. If Clark can come back healthy, we still have a solid chance to make Ivy Madness, but does it matter if we sneak into fourth and lose in the first round again?
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3588
Reg: 02-15-15
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Harvard
01-23-24 03:34 PM - Post#362040
In response to Mike Porter
MP-Not directed specifically at you, many on here have questioned EH's playing time over the past 1.5 seasons. I agree recruiting has been lacking (at best). But unless any of us are in every practice and meeting it's tough to really understand which players are really performing at a game level. We can (deservedly) knock SD for a lot of things but historically, playing time isn't one of them. He's not political, doesn't really play favorites, and has a history of playing guys with good matchups and there are many cases where someone is buried on the bench and find their way back into the rotation. I don't know the issue(s) around Holland's playing time but it could be any number of things we don't see that happen during practice.
Coaches play guys who they think give them the best chance to win. It's also guys they can trust to make more good decisions than bad ones during games. Again, I have no idea what's up with Holland but to think anyone on here has a better idea than the coaches is pretty presumptuous. Heck, one example I remember is when SD tried to bury Darnell Foreman on the bench for his first 3 years and Darnell kept finding himself in the lineup. That's because he kept doing things that SD could trust and ultimately they couldn't NOT play him.
Edited by PennFan10 on 01-23-24 03:35 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3619
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Harvard
01-23-24 05:50 PM - Post#362051
In response to PennFan10
Hi PennFan10 - appreciate the response and context. I don't disagree with you, we are all certainly armchair quarterbacks at best. And generally playing time isn't my big gripe.
I'm just confused about Holland based on metrics and eye test. Another player like Thrower, I get the decision at this stage of his career based on eye test and metrics. And on Holland, I agree with the decision to go with Laz, who I'm a fan of, but odd to me that Holland can't find more minutes.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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01-24-24 05:19 AM - Post#362058
In response to Mike Porter
Holland hasn't really looked great at the eye test to me, but I hope he earns more minutes back too. I'd also like to see more Polonowski.
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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01-27-24 04:16 PM - Post#362226
In response to UPIA1968
Holland can't finish unless the recipient of a good pass.
You sure we watch the same Ed Holland?
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Quakers03
Professor
Posts: 12533
Reg: 12-07-04
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Harvard
01-27-24 04:45 PM - Post#362247
In response to Quakers03
All he does is score. That’s it. 12 points in less than 15 minutes. Again! Don’t tell me his defense is any worse than this other slop. Again, help me understand. Coach doesn’t like how he practices?? This is just so much more than losing guys.
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